Breaking the Silence: Dentistry, Mental Illness, and the Path to Authentic Living with Dr. Maggie Augustyn

Maggie Augustyn 0:00

But no, none of it, none of it was ever planned. It just, it happened very organically and it continues to happen. And I really, honestly, I don’t have plans with it and I don’t know where it’s going to lead, but I have a sense of restlessness and I have an incredible thirst to learn and to grow and to be a better person tomorrow. And my personal goal, my personal mission, okay, that I ask the universe to help me fulfill is that however alone I had been growing up or running my business or learning to be a dentist, I never want anybody to feel that alone ever, ever.

Shawn Zajas 0:40

The future of dentistry belongs to the innovators. Welcome to Innovation in Dentistry. I’m your host, Shawn Zajas. And I believe that the future of dentistry is going to be unbelievably great over the next decade and two decades. But the question isn’t that. The question is, are you going to be part of what makes dentistry great?

Shawn Zajas 1:10

So I am just so excited today because I have the honor of interviewing Dr. Maggie Augustyn. And honestly, when I met you, Maggie, I had no idea what you were known for. I didn’t know the impact you were making. I just met someone that looked at me with honesty and transparency. And there was just a connection. And of course, you somehow thought I look like Kirk Cameron. But before we get into any of that, let me just welcome you. Thank you so much for being part of the show today.

Maggie Augustyn 1:45

Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Thank you for reaching out. And I really do appreciate connecting with you.

Shawn Zajas 1:52

So, Maggie, one of the things, sorry, I shouldn’t even call you Maggie. I should call you Dr.

Maggie Augustyn 1:57

No, no, no, please. Maggie is perfectly fine. That’s who I am. Unless I’m working inside your mouth, it’s Maggie.

Shawn Zajas 2:03

So, what fascinates me and why I even have this podcast is because I want to know what is it about people’s mindsets and belief sets that even gives them that permission to pioneer positive change. You know, being a dentist is more than enough. Being a hygienist or an office manager is more than enough. But for some of us, it’s just not who we are. Just that thing. We need to do something else. And I see the way that you write articles. I see the way you get up and you’re leading. You’re on stage and you are making such a positive change in dentistry. Did you know this was always going to be your story? Or when you were little, you just thought, hey, I’m going to get a degree. I’m going to be a great dentist. And that’s enough.

Maggie Augustyn 2:50

Wow. You really put me in a light that I definitely don’t see myself in. And thank you for that. So it’s interesting. I immigrated to this country when I was in seventh grade and started eighth grade here. Okay. And at the end of eighth grade, I did really well in learning English, English as a second language. And my teacher put me on a, on this stage, which I had never been on ever before. And to explain to other ESL teachers what it was like for me to learn language or English at the speed that I did.

Maggie Augustyn 3:27

Okay. And I got a sense of high from being on stage and talking to people. I was nervous as anything. I didn’t really know how to speak English quite well, not as well as I do now. But there was, there was a feedback loop that I think began in that moment. And, and my dad told me he was incredibly proud of me. And that always stuck with me. Um, and then, uh, my sister got married a few years ago and she asked me to speak and, um, and I did. And again, the same thing happened where my dad’s like, wow. And my dad is a very hard person to, to impress. He’s like, well, you really have a talent for speaking in front of people. And I thought, well, you know, this was really fun. Um, but no, none of it, none of it was ever planned. Um, it just, it happened very organically and it continues to happen. And I really, honestly, I don’t have plans with it and I don’t know where it’s going to lead, but I have a sense of restlessness and I have, um, an incredible thirst to learn and to grow and to be a better person tomorrow. And my, my personal goal, my personal mission. Okay. That I ask the universe to help me fulfill is that however alone I had been growing up or running my business or learning to be a dentist. I never want anybody to feel that alone ever, ever. And that’s what drives me.

Shawn Zajas 4:57

Well, I love that because one of the things I share with people is that it’s in the moments of adversity or challenge that if you actually just yield to it, you can find some gold in that struggle that can not just transform your life, but can be something that then you can use to transform your life. Transform others’ lives. But we’re so uncomfortable in the midst of that challenge, in the midst of that adversity, in the midst of that trauma. And we can either get really bitter by those challenges, or we can get better and then step up and lead. And that’s exactly what I see you doing. But it’s fascinating to me that this seems like it’s all been happening. I don’t know. So over the last, what, 24 months, 36 months that this platform has emerged?

Maggie Augustyn 5:49

So in 2020, in January of 2020, I published an article called Dentistry Made Me Hate People in Dentistry Today. And that was really probably the inception of this entire, I don’t know, side hustle of this. But it’s my purpose. It’s my drive. And I’ll tell you, I struggle very, very much because I love clinical dentistry. I am high working on a tooth inside a mouth, doing an extraction, placing an implant. I love it. I can’t get enough of it. But I do find my purpose, my true purpose that comes from my heart, that comes from my soul. I find that in writing and in talking to people and getting to know them and then listening to their story and then making sure that they’re heard and they feel relevant and they feel important and they feel like they matter and they feel like they’re not alone.

Shawn Zajas 6:46

So to me, it seems like it’s this fusion of everything that you’ve experienced in your life that’s finally aligning. I was reading some of your writings and I was like, wow, Maggie has this uncanny transparency, authenticity, but yet I also feel like she’s a philosopher. I don’t know if anyone’s ever called you that before because there’s this deep sense of your intellect and you’re also like this artist. I don’t know. There’s just this, it’s beautiful to behold. And I’ve been accused of flattery before and I always have to set the record straight. I love honoring people. It’s not flattery.

Shawn Zajas 7:26

I grew up with a brother and sister that were 13 months older than me. They’re twins. They’re still healthy and amazing. And they were just gifted and talented at everything. Like literally, they were just, they’re both models, popular academics, athletics, everything. And my parents still somehow loved me in a way that made me feel special. So I celebrate people’s strengths. And that’s where I bring my gift to share, where I genuinely love seeing people’s strengths. And I love seeing people operate in the way that they’re meant to, where they can just shine. And it’s so neat seeing you because your light just keeps getting brighter. But let’s go back. When did you know you wanted to be a dentist? Was this something like really early on? Or how did you stumble into dentistry?

Maggie Augustyn 8:20

I fell into it. I don’t have a romantic story for that. I wanted to be a scientist. My dad is a scientist. He’s a PhD. He’s an organic chemist. And I loved science. Science drove me. When I was in college, I was a complete geek and nerd. And all I wanted was to learn more molecular biology and immunology. However, this was 25 years ago. Things were a little different. And when I talked to my dad about being a scientist, there was a sense of discouragement in that because women had not come far along in that. And in order for me to really be a scientist and make a difference, I would have to give up many other things, including motherhood, which I don’t know that I was prepared to do.

Maggie Augustyn 9:07

And then what layered on top of that and became evident in my later years of college is that I have a mood disorder. My providers hate it when I call it a disease, but I have a mental disorder, which prevents me from kind of living in a straight line. And I am constantly pushed into darkness and have to overcome it. And so that complicated things, whereas I couldn’t just take a straight line and maybe become a scientist because my overall mental health probably would not permit me to deal with the ups and lows that is involved with being a scientist.

Maggie Augustyn 9:49

Medicine was an option. Sometimes I regret not being a doctor. Interesting thing, I did not choose to take the MCAT because I hated physics. And physics was on the MCAT and it was not on the DAT. When I went into dental school and I got accepted to dental school, I didn’t know what a root canal was. I didn’t know what a bridge was. I didn’t know what a deep cleaning was. I knew nothing. I just walked into dental school having been accepted based on what I had written and they didn’t even have interviews back then and my grades and my DAT score. So I don’t have a romantic story in terms of why I became a dentist. I kind of just fell into it. I love science and I love, I still do love working with my hands. And it just seemed like it was going to be a great career path for me, especially thinking that I could do more. I could be a mom and, you know, drive my own career the way that I would have wanted to.

Shawn Zajas 10:40

Okay, so I’m really fascinated and I don’t mean to sound like insensitive about this, but like, isn’t dentistry more up and down than the route of a scientist? Like, I feel like I’ve heard about the suicide rates and the struggles in dentistry. My father-in-law, he’s a scientist. He works on, you know, vaccines and immunology and everything. And I see the stress that’s on, you know, him and his wife. They’re both in that area, you know, but I don’t, I don’t know. I just feel like dentistry is equally as hard. Were you shocked when you realized like dentistry just sucks sometimes?

Maggie Augustyn 11:20

Oh my God. Dentistry is unforgiving. Absolutely unforgiving. For a human being that is a perfectionist that appears, I mean, that profession appears to attract us. It truly is unforgiving. We judge ourselves every single step of the way, every filling, every root canal, every patient interaction. Somehow put ourselves into a loop where we use that to judge who we are and how good of a human we are. So yeah. So dentistry is unforgiving. I don’t think my dad knew that at the time when he gave me that advice. I didn’t know that at the time. Certainly. I thought you just kind of worked on teeth and placed some fillings. I mean, I had no idea it was going to be. It is, it is, it is very challenging. Yes.

Shawn Zajas 12:04

So when did you discover this diagnosis?

Shawn Zajas 12:09

Um, the diagnosis of, sorry, of what you’re saying, this mental disease.

Maggie Augustyn 12:14

Oh, um, so again, interesting. The first time that I had thoughts of not wanting to live, I was very, very young. I might’ve been 10 years old and, um, gosh, I’ve never talked about this publicly, but the moment, um, that I understood what suicide was. Um, I can’t believe I’m sharing this with you. Um, the moment as a human being, as a child, when I understood what suicide was, um, it was, it became an option in my life. It was something that could be an answer. And I was maybe 10 when I, when I learned that. And since then, it’s just been a fight. It’s just been a fight at keeping that darkness away. So I went undiagnosed. I mean, I grew

Maggie Augustyn 13:08

up in Poland where things like that weren’t talked about. And I sincerely thought that every child had those thoughts. I didn’t talk to anybody about it, but I really thought that everybody felt the same way that I did. And so, um, I had some issues towards the end of high school. I had an eating disorder, got a little bit of help for that, but really my breakdown, um, that led to a hospitalization happened in my third year of dental school, where the pressure of applying to dental school, taking the DAT, finishing all my work, uh, working with a recommendation committee, it got to be too much. And, um, you know, the rug got cold from under me and I just no longer could handle my life and ended up, um, going to the hospital, uh, to be, uh, committed voluntarily for three days to be put on a three-day hold, which that’s just another book that needs to be written because, uh, that was really, uh, quite a traumatic experience. And, um, and I came out and I, maybe went to a, uh, like a day camp, um, for people that were dealing with depression, suicidality for about three months and returned back to school and finished and graduated college on time. Um, and that was one of the most difficult times in my life. But so, so I guess I would say that really the, the, the proper diagnosis and treatment began in towards Lake college.

Shawn Zajas 14:34

And I could understand why as a 10 year old, if this is what you know, and it’s your normal, you have no idea that someone else isn’t just thinking these same thoughts. Like this is just kind of what is normal to you. Right? So it wasn’t until later on that you’re probably thinking, oh my gosh, sorry, no one else feels this weight. No one else feels this impending darkness that keeps trying to draw them in. Now, I mean, I actually have not read the book, but as you’re sharing this, I just keep thinking about that title of the book. I’ve read it a little bit. The Gifts of Imperfection by Brené Brown.

Maggie Augustyn 15:11

Absolutely. Yes.

Shawn Zajas 15:13

Like I, as crazy as it is, it’s like, Maggie, you are here in dentistry for a reason. And I mean, not to ruin the punchline, but like you, you didn’t give in to this suicidality. You’re here. You are here right now. And that is such a gift that all the areas where you have struggled and overcome can now be this gift that you get to give to other people. This is what I’ve learned. This is how I overcame. And who knows how many other people might be on the verge of something horrible and they need to hear this message. Yeah, there are so many books inside of you. And I love that you’re a writer. I mean, that that’s just so when did you realize you’re a writer? Have you always been like, you know, did you journal a lot as a kid?

Maggie Augustyn 16:06

No. So when I was in college, I was in an honors program and I was put on probation because I wasn’t writing well. And so I had to meet with a professor every Tuesday and Thursday for an entire semester to improve my writing skills. And I take a tremendous amount of pride in how far I’d come in learning how to write. I had a friend in college, not to make this podcast so dark, but he’d attempted suicide. And I was talking to another friend about it and she said, what a coward.

Maggie Augustyn 16:39

And again, this is something that in that moment I was dealing with very much. And so I wrote an article about having to fight against yourself, not to die. And I wrote it knowing my own experience, but I wrote it about him. And I gave it to our publication at Benedictine University, which is why I went to college. And without me knowing, they ended up entering into a contest and it won second place in Illinois. And so I think that kind of started that idea, okay, well, maybe I don’t suck as a writer. And this is a way that I have of processing. And then when I wrote the article many, many years later, it demonstrated me to hate people. For me, writing is a way of processing what is going on in my life. And it just happens to be in a way where people can relate to it and understand it because they themselves are going through something similar.

Shawn Zajas 17:35

Have you always had that ability to just have, I guess, have that courage to share your story in such an open way?

Maggie Augustyn 17:44

God, no. No, I remember I was in dental school and I accidentally, I was adjusting a model and I accidentally stabbed myself in my hand. And I had to go across the street to the hospital to get stitches to the ER. And a colleague went with me. And so when during the intake, they said, well, you know, you got to tell me who you are. You got to tell me what medications you were taking. And I was taking antidepressants. And I asked my colleague to leave the room because I was so ashamed of letting her or anybody know that I was depressed. And it took me many, many, many years. It took me decades. It was in my forties, probably before I openly admitted to anybody that I had the actual thoughts of suicidality my entire life.

Maggie Augustyn 18:33

And so, no, I hid it as best as I could for most of my life. And I continue to do so. And I think people that struggle with mental disorders do the same thing. People expect us to be a certain way. Like, you know, I saw my dad and again, I’m going through darkness and he, you know, he looks at me. He’s like, but you just, you seem so normal. Like looking at you, nobody would be able to tell that you’re struggling with this. Right. Because I have had to pretend that I’m not for the last 45 years or well, 30 years, however many years. So, um, yeah, I mean, I, I talk about it openly, but you know, I got to go and be with a patient whether or not I’m having those thoughts or not. Right. So I got to go and pretend like I’m not. Um, so it’s still a cycle that continues.

Shawn Zajas 19:30

I’m just like, I’m just fascinated because I get the sense based off of your dad, based off of talking to you. Um, by the way, for our listeners, I don’t know your dad. I just mean like what I’ve heard about him in this episode. Um, that it was almost probably easy also for you to hide behind the giftings and the excellence that you had. And because you were still high achieving, it’s like, well, people think, well, Maggie’s doing great. Like she’s climbing the ladder of what we, we recognize is, uh, someone that’s healthy and whole. Um, she’s being applauded because she’s smart, she’s capable, but it doesn’t mean behind the eyes and on the inside, you’re not.

Maggie Augustyn 20:11

Coping with the, these like demons, so to speak. Right. Um, yeah. And the, and the caveat of that is also how dare you have those thoughts when you are achieving, when you are succeeding, what in the world is wrong with you? How could you possibly not want to live when you have the most perfect life?

Shawn Zajas 20:30

That kind of adds, it adds to the fact that it was, you could a hide behind it and be get tormented by the fact that you shouldn’t feel this way. Because you, you know, yeah, man. So that’s just like on both sides, there’s this assault coming at you. Um, and then I just wonder Maggie, because in dentistry, I’m imagining, I was just talking to a good friend of mine, Dr. Allison House, who I podcast with, uh, separately about how she was saying like, you know, she’s a female dentist that got thrust into a very male dominated dentistry at the time. But in that same exact, like, um, type of dentistry, like the male ego, it was all like, how are you doing? I’m crushing it. Like I’m doing great. It was not a very, uh, we’re very open about our struggles. It’s like, no, there isn’t struggles. Like, you know, as a dentist, you are successful and you’re playing in this like male dominated space. Um, I’m just saying, did that make it even more challenging for authenticity, for courage to be open?

Maggie Augustyn 21:34

Very much so. I’d had mentors, mentors. I’d had, I’d had, I suppose, I don’t know if you can even call them male role models. I’d had male dentists in my life that told me everything I was doing was wrong. Don’t you dare go into the room with a patient not wearing a lab coat. What kind of a doctor are you? Um, even when we built the website that we have right now, um, myhappytooth.com, when you go to the front page, you cannot tell who’s a dentist and who isn’t. We all look the same. We’re not wearing lab coats. The only distinction is everybody, um, we’re wearing blue jeans. I think that’s the only distinction. And, you know, this person called me and said, this is, this is dumb. This website is terrible. You can’t tell who the doctor is. And I said, but that’s precisely the point. I’m not better than anybody else because I’m a doctor. This is the team of people that is going to take care of you.

Maggie Augustyn 22:31

So, yes, there is that battle still of, um, living in this male dominated masculine energy type field, but it’s changing. And it’s, there’s beauty in watching that change, however small it is, and being a part of beginning that change and keeping other people accountable for that change. There’s so many incredible male dentists out there, um, who support women in dentistry and they want us to succeed. Um, and that’s the beauty that’s been, that’s been generated, but, but yes, um, it was an uphill battle, uh, for the first, you know, decade, decade and a half of my life. Fortunately, now those people are no longer part of my people. I choose not to surround myself with dentists that think that way. I, I surround myself with people that choose me, that uplift me, that celebrate me.

Shawn Zajas 23:38

So you said that this wasn’t always, I don’t know, a courage that you walked in with being open with just being transparent. What was either like a belief set or a mindset shift that helped you all of a sudden realize like, I can, I can be me. I can own my, my skin. I can own my story. And I don’t need to have shame associated with it.

Maggie Augustyn 24:03

I always talk about having people around you that support you and having, and having people help you. And I, my life was difficult. My career was difficult. Working was difficult. I was running an HML public aid office. Patients, interactions were leading to burnout. This is just too much. And then at the end of all, I broke my leg and ended up having cancer. And after the cancer, I woke up and I’m like, I’m not going back to that life. There’s no way. I’d rather not have a job. I’d rather live in a tent than go back to that. And somehow I wrote an article called

Maggie Augustyn 24:43

dental life coach is not for suckers anymore. And I described there my story of meeting my life coach, which again was kismet. It was just kind of fell into it. And my conversations with her, her name is Lonnie Grass. My conversations with her led me to believe that I was worth living the kind of life that fulfilled me. I didn’t have to pretend to be the person that everybody else was telling me to be. And so she swung those doors open in making, and so once you become authentic, right, once you become living the life and as a person that you are, it’s really hard to go back. You know, there’s so much lightness and joy in it. So much lightness that it’s just impossible to go backwards.

Maggie Augustyn 25:41

And I’ll tell you, I mean, I do have a lot of people criticizing me for how open I am. This is dirty laundry that you’re airing. You shouldn’t be talking about this. You should only be talking about the good. But I think in the end of the day, again, part of the reason why I share is for my own process. But part of the reason, the bigger reason that I share, which I’m coming to find out, is I am not the only one that feels this way. And if we all knew that we were in it together, right, if we just stopped pretending that our practices are incredibly successful, and we have the best teams, and we have the best patients, and our crown margins are perfect on every restoration, I think burnout would certainly be a different story than it is today.

Shawn Zajas 26:41

Your message and your voice is so liberating. It’s empowering. It’s inspiring. And for those that would want to silence, subdue, or water it down, it’s like they’re probably well-meaning, but thank God you don’t listen to them, Maggie. What, yeah, yeah, like your message is so needed in dentistry. Like the more I find out about the dark side of dentistry, the more I’m like, oh my gosh, like I don’t know why I wouldn’t have thought this, but like people are humans just like I’m a human. I struggle in business to keep believing when I’m trying to get traction with an idea or a business, and at times I feel foolish because it hasn’t taken off yet and been as successful as like Mark Zuckerberg.

Shawn Zajas 27:32

You know, you compare yourself with the crazy stories, and you, I don’t know, that’s how I’m wired. It’s like I find ways to, I don’t know, judge myself in ways that I don’t measure up. And then I’m always finding myself lacking, and that’s not a healthy, that’s not healthy self-image, that’s not healthy identity. That doesn’t get me to be who I need to be. And my vision is very similar to yours, where I see everybody needing to like link arms. And in this beautiful, like synergy of people coming together to make dentistry better, like we need everyone to be at their best. We need people to fit that role that only they can fit. No one else can be Maggie. Like, it’s you. And you’re doing a great job, and I’m so thankful for that.

Shawn Zajas 28:23

So it seems like you’ve really known that you are a capable writer, and now it seems like you’re finding yourself more on the stage and speaking. Where are you going from here? Like, I’m really curious. What do you think the next five, ten years looks like for you as this agent of change?

Maggie Augustyn 28:41

My gosh. I, every morning, I wake up, not every morning, about four days out of the week, I wake up, I get ready, I go to work really early and I meditate. And I ask the universe, God, whatever you call your higher power, to put me where I belong so that I can help the most people. I sincerely don’t know. There were times that I had ideas, you know, maybe I’ll work for another five years or so in my practice and then start speaking. But I am like you. For example, I mean, there are some people that I kind of came up with, you know, some, and some have become these incredible speakers. And I compare myself to them and I’m like, holy cow, like, look at her winning an award, look at her winning an award. And here I am. And I am just like, I’ve had three and three speaking engagements this year, right? And then, so then I had to calm down from that and I needed to put things in perspective. I love my job. I am a clinician. I don’t know. I don’t know what’s going to happen with this. I do know that I will keep writing. I do know that if I am asked to speak, I will continue speaking. I will continue being there for my patients. And I think the percentages of how much I do what are going to change over time. One of my greatest dreams is to write a book.

Maggie Augustyn 30:04

I don’t know what’s going to be in that book. I don’t know if it’ll be my life story. I don’t know if it’ll be more specific to dentistry. I’m constantly having thoughts about what I could write about it. I mean, I think writing is just, I think it is my greatest passion. But I am open. I am open to being led in whatever direction I need to be. At the same time, understanding that the darkness that I have around me will hinder and will throw me for a loop. Wherever it is that I’m meant to be, I know I’m going to have to work that much harder because I’m going to have to get around the darkness and it’s going to take me longer to get there. And you know what? And it’s okay. It’s just, this is the life that I have been given. This is the life that I am

Maggie Augustyn 31:04

eternally grateful for experiencing. This is, these are the moments that I am trying to understand and overcome. And the darkness lends itself to light. And I would never experience joy if it wasn’t for the sadness. Although those are some of the difficult things to keep in perspective when that dark cloud is over you. But, you know, all in all, and like I said, I am going through a dark time right now. But I am I am so grateful for this moment. And that’s what I tried to focus on. I am just open to experiencing life as a human being and inviting others to feel freedom from whatever is bringing their minds down, knowing that we truly are together and you do not have to experiment, experience those moments alone.

Shawn Zajas 32:04

This is a pause, like 100%. You aren’t alone and you don’t have to stay alone. And dentistry is a really interesting industry, but there’s beautiful communities. There are beautiful communities in dentistry. And if people don’t know where they are, it’s like, reach out to Maggie. Like, you know, we were even talking about off camera, just about, you know, Productive Dentist Academy, PDA and that community. There’s so many life-giving, supportive and encouraging communities. And I’m just going to speak for myself, but like, I want to know when you write that book because I want to read the book. And I don’t think it’s just one, but also I do want you to know any way that I can help you with what I’ve learned or resources that I have for you speaking or writing, just please let me know. I’m 100% like in the Dr. Maggie fan club. And I just genuinely mean that because I know how difficult dentistry can be. I know how refreshing though a cup of cold water is. And the message that you have is that refreshing, human, relatable, oh my gosh, someone gets me. Someone gets my struggle. And someone’s telling me that in the midst of my struggle, there’s hope.

Shawn Zajas 33:30

You know, and what I would say to you about speaking is don’t ever measure yourself compared to someone else when it comes to the technical side of the professional, you know, the tonality and the delivery. If you connect to your heart and you align your message to that, 1000% you are going to move people and drive impact. Even if you stumble over your words, even if you don’t, haven’t mastered yet the techniques of it, you belong on the stage simply because of the life that you’ve lived and the way that you’ve overcome.

Shawn Zajas 34:09

Sorry, this isn’t normal. I can’t say that I always just go off like that. It’s just that I have such a clear picture of the struggle and I’m just so honored at the way that you have overcome and that tension you talk about with that, that like looming darkness. And I see the way that you appreciate, you’re grateful, you’ve accepted like all the different ways in which you’re trying to find the best ways to overcome.

Shawn Zajas 34:40

I don’t know. One of the ways I just described like my struggles is that I need to learn how to dance in the tension of them, you know, to still be able to be free to be me and being me is like joy and play and almost like fun. Like that’s one of the things that makes me come alive when I play. And when I get to be on podcasts and interview people like you, to me, this is like playtime. I just come alive.

Shawn Zajas 35:05

I can see that in you. I love what makes humans different. And I can so appreciate Maggie, the little that I know about your story. Again, the giftings that you have and how those giftings have been, they’ve opened up doors for you. And at the same exact time, they’ve mocked you. Right? Like you are so gifted. So what would you want to bring attention to that you’re working on right now? Or maybe it’s an event that you’re going to go to. Now, keep in mind, this episode will launch June 7th. So it needs to be something after that.

Maggie Augustyn 35:44

I am speaking at the AGD in July with a talk called Lie to Me, the Destructive Nature of Comparison. It is one of my favorite things to talk about, about how we make up stories about ourselves and how it’s the thing that you talked about yourself. We just come up with this impossible way of measuring and we feel like we’re never good enough. And so I talk about the science behind it and why it’s happening. And then later, and then I’m going to the natural boost camp, which I’m very excited about. And at that one, I’m going to be speaking about the article that I recently published, which is called I’ve arrived from $100 in the bank to generational wealth in less than three years. And that article has been circulated quite a bit. And that might be the reason why you ended up reaching out to me. I don’t know.

Maggie Augustyn 36:39

But that was not what I thought I was going to be known for. Like I thought that it would have been something entirely different that would have been publicized. And then the third talk that I have this year is for DeW, Dental Entrepreneur Woman, which is an incredible organization of women in dentistry. And that one is called Enough with the Humble. And it talks about how we just simply don’t celebrate enough by constantly, by constantly focusing on how we don’t measure up. We create circuits in our brain that do not allow us to feel the positive feedback of all the good that we have created. And then, you know, just constantly writing for dentistry today in my column called Mindful Moments. So those are some of the things that I’m working on. And yeah, one day somewhere in there, I’d like to write a book.

Maggie Augustyn 37:39

And my life coach and I, Lonnie Grass, are working on a podcast that we’re hoping to launch sometime this year called Untangle Me. So it’s just constantly a ton of stuff on my plate. And it’s funny because I don’t know if you feel that way, too. And I don’t know how many other listeners feel that way. It feels like the more things land on our plate, the more we feel needed. You know, if I have to be all things to all people the night, that must mean that I have some value, some worth. So that’s something that I’m personally working on, too. I gotta gain my value, my worth from something other than overstuffing my plate.

Shawn Zajas 38:27

That is, again, fascinating. But again, something you wrote about how you struggle with being idle. Like, there’s this incessant drive. And it probably is because you are ambitious, you are excellent, and there’s so many things that you can do with this short amount of time that we’re all given. But at the same exact time, how do you go extreme in a countercultural way and just be? Not toward an aim, but just be. And in being, knowing that you’re enough without what you’re doing, right? Without this output. Because you can create wonderful output. Like, you know, you know how to write the amazing article. You know how to do great dentistry. You know how to inspire dentists. You know how to lead. And yet, you’re enough just being when you’re there in nature. You know, I saw, I don’t know what post it was, this beautiful picture of like the mountains and there you are.

Shawn Zajas 39:24

And it was just like, oh. And I find myself when I’m trying to be still in my mind, I’m trying to connect to something, something efficient or productive that I’m doing in being. Like, my mind needs to know, well, you’re somehow getting ahead by doing this. And it’s like, just like, be quiet. Like, I’m just being right now and entering into some sort of rest for my soul. And I don’t have to figure out why this is beneficial. I don’t have to figure out why this is productive or why I’m getting ahead right now, you know? So I don’t know. Maybe that encourages you. Maggie, do you see yourself as an artist?

Maggie Augustyn 40:07

I don’t know that you know. I do paint. I have. From when I was young, I do create art. I guess I never thought about it beyond that, but writing is my art as well.

Shawn Zajas 40:27

Yes.

Maggie Augustyn 40:28

So I suppose I do. I’m a little wacky, a little crazy, like an artist, right?

Shawn Zajas 40:36

That’s what I’m saying. I see you as that creative, as that artist. And again, maybe in later stages of your life, leaning more into even that philosopher. Maybe that sounds weird, but I’m just saying I can see the way that you’re making sense of the world in a way that you ask questions a lot of people don’t ask.

Maggie Augustyn 40:55

I think, yeah, I think incessantly. Everything that you’re saying, I want to have a return on investment on every single thought in my head. Right? That’s kind of exactly what you’re saying. That’s what prevents us from being. It’s like, wait, I have three seconds. Let me write down my to-do list. But yeah, I am addicted to listening to books that try to explain the universe, to try to explain consciousness.

Maggie Augustyn 41:29

I do deprivation chamber tank therapy. I am addicted to all of those things that lie outside of the skin. And so I suppose that makes me a philosopher, but that also throws me for a loop because here I am and I’m like, wait, do I pay attention to the actual life or do I pay attention to where my consciousness is coming from? Like, here’s another thing that’s just going to mess me up. So, um, so I do, I, I, you know, when you say philosopher, I, that is something that I very much connect to.

Shawn Zajas 42:09

Maggie, um, I really mean this. Like, I think there’s probably another episode in the future just because there’s so much, um, and there’s not enough time, but I do want to close with this question. Um, so Maggie of today is walking past 18 year old Maggie and it’s just really brief, but you have one sentiment that you can express to her. What is that?

Maggie Augustyn 42:35

Oh my God. This is really hard. I wish you would have given me this question three days ago. Um,

Shawn Zajas 42:45

the philosopher in you is like, I’m not, I can’t, I can’t arrive at what that truth is. It’s too big. Okay. Um, so just say you’re going to walk by her again in a day, but right now you just have a moment.

Maggie Augustyn 42:58

Sure. So, you know, thinking about where I was at the age of 18 and how lost I was and how, you know, my mental illness was, was really starting to rear its ugly head. I think I would have tried to convince myself that you can step away from the darkness. Um, no, find comfort in the uncomfortable moment because there’s going to be more of them and that that’s okay. But if you learn to get through the uncomfortable moments, if you will learn to get through the difficult moments, it’s going to be that much easier. I’m not saying they’re going to be at those moments aren’t going to be easier. But it’s just going to, to put you on an entirely different trajectory.

Shawn Zajas 43:51

That is incredibly profound and incredibly beautiful. Thank you, Maggie. Honestly, it has been an honor. It has been a joy. I see you again as an innovator, as a leader, as someone that’s pioneering positive change in the industry. And again, any way that I can come alongside and help get your message out there, please let me know. But again, thank you so much for joining me today.

Maggie Augustyn 44:16

I sincerely appreciate the invitation. It was great connecting with you. And you were not kidding about making sure that you make people feel really wonderful on the inside. I appreciate all the kind words.

Shawn Zajas 44:28

Thank you, Maggie.

Shawn Zajas 44:32

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