Bold Moves and Resilience: Dentist's Journey through Crisis and Transformation with Dr. Chad Johnson

Chad Johnson 0:00

And we all have the potential to be cowardly. So what I’m saying is within our human nature, we have the potential to be cowardly, each of us, and that we also have the potential to be brave.

Shawn Zajas 0:12

The future of dentistry belongs to the innovators. Welcome to Innovation in Dentistry. I’m your host, Shawn Zajas, and I believe that the future of dentistry is going to be unbelievably great over the next decade and two decades. But the question isn’t that. The question is, are you going to be part of what makes dentistry great?

Shawn Zajas 0:42

Hey guys, so here I am with a dear friend of mine, Dr. Chad Johnson. And I just want to say, first of all, Chad, you do not fit a mold. If there’s one thing I would say, it’s that you are just out of the box. And I love your perspective, the way your mind works. So welcome to the show. It is great to have you.

Chad Johnson 1:04

Shawn, thanks so much, man. I’m looking forward to some fun conversation. It’s too bad we don’t have three hours in front of us because we could do it.

Shawn Zajas 1:14

Yeah, I remember meeting you, Chad, at a PDA workshop. And it was kind of after hours and I’m sitting there journaling, probably reading some book. I see you like about to get on the elevator and I just shout out to you, hey, Chad. And all I know is that it was already late and probably two and a half hours later, you finally were like, okay, I probably need to go.

Chad Johnson 1:38

Right. But because I think we started at nine o’clock and honestly, that’s like bedtime for me. And so, I mean, but you know what? It was so worth it. But there, there came a point where we were approaching midnight or after midnight where it was like, okay, I want, I actually want to keep going, but I don’t think my, like, I don’t think I can think. And we’ve been so engaged. It was, it was fantastic. And our, our friendship from there on forward has been, has been just as engaging. And so it’s, it’s quite a pleasure to be on this podcast, to, to have listeners, uh, co-engage with us.

Shawn Zajas 2:15

So you not just run a very successful practice, your team members rave about you, but you also have your own podcast. Just tell me about that.

Chad Johnson 2:25

Yeah. So Regan Robertson and I are both within the Productive Dentist Academy sphere. And that’s where obviously I met you. And, uh, so we’ve been doing podcasts, uh, for, uh, let’s see how three years together before that I was with Victoria Peterson doing the podcast, but she passed it off to Regan, uh, to co-host with me. And, uh, we’re coming up on our 200th episode. Um, so people can check that out at productivedentist.com. Um, and I think it might be slash podcast or podcasts. Uh, Dr. Bruce Baird also has podcasts that are within there. And, uh, Victoria Peterson has investment, investment grade practice, um,

Chad Johnson 3:07

investment grade practices, uh, podcast. And so, um, yeah, within the Productive Dentist Academy or what we call PDA sphere, uh, we have three podcasts, um, that are, uh, different topics and ours is more, uh, casual with talking about business concepts. It’s not clinical. Um, it’s talking about business concepts. Victoria is talking about, um, uh, with investment grade practices, talking about how to make your practice worth. Keeping or worth selling, but you know, making the, your, uh, your business bottom line work. And Bruce, uh, does more of a monologue style. Like I told you, and his is basically just talking about, um, stuff that he shares at workshops, how to get your practice, uh, you know, the button gear for your practice and getting yourself, uh, better as a leader and all the stuff that he talks about at a workshop. He brings it up 15 minutes at a time on his monologue. And it’s really cool. Cause I mean, man, it’s not like he says, well, I I’ll share the last idea with you. If you go on the, uh, you know, the workshop, he shares it all. It’s really cool. I think for posterity’s sake, uh, you know, 20, 40 years from now, people can still listen to, uh, Bruce’s business, uh, advice and it’ll still be pertinent. It’ll be timeless stuff. So that’s awesome that he’s doing that for, uh, for his legacy.

Shawn Zajas 4:28

You know, I feel like all of you guys at PDA have that same just spirit of generosity. You know, when I meet Regan, you, Victoria, Bruce, you just want to make dentistry better. And I noticed with any high achiever that I see in dentistry, um, that I feel like there’s a like-mindedness with, um, me. It’s that they’re playing the long game. They’re not trying to get on top of people or do some shortcut so that they can reach some pinnacle on their own. They really want to pour themselves out and serve. And it’s just a super easy way to honor Victoria, you, Regan,

Chad Johnson 5:07

and Dr. Baird. Um, okay. I need to ask though, I have no problem on this podcast. Do you want me to call you Dr. Johnson? No. You sure? Yes. Chad is just fine. I mean, listen, so I know, doesn’t it sound so fancy and that’s just not me. Um, so I grew up around this area, uh, here in the Des Moines, Iowa area. And, uh, so all my patients are, well, no, a good amount of my patients are old, you know, longtime friends and family and, and stuff like that. And they just know me as Chad too. And it just, it doesn’t bother me. It’s just realistically, authentically down to earth. And I like it. So Chad is just fine. CJ, Ocho Cinco, all of it. Yeah. Oh, that’s you. Yeah. That’s me. I, it’s been me the whole time. I just do football on the weekends. Yeah. Our, our video producers like, wait a second, you’re interviewing Chad Ocho Cinco. I’m like, no, the dentistry one. Right. The more famous.

Shawn Zajas 6:07

The more famous. Yeah, that’s right. In our circle. Okay. So how is it that you, um, I don’t know. I don’t feel like you, I don’t know. I wouldn’t have thought when I see you, oh, that’s going to be a dentist. Now at the same time, you are very nuanced in your craft and you’re also very gifted, you know, socially. So I guess that, that does fit. But how did you end up in dentistry? Is this something that you just knew this guiding light was over your life and you’re like, I’m going to be a dentist.

Chad Johnson 6:34

Yeah. In eighth grade, I got hit playing basketball in my front tooth and had to visit, you know, a bunch of dental stuff. And I was just like, this dentistry stuff is pretty cool. There was a dentist at my church that was, um, uh, that I admired, looked up to. And, uh, and I was like, you know, I, I want to check more into this dentistry stuff. And the more I checked into it, I was like, so it’s the quintessential stuff. You know, like I get to run my own business and call my own shots. It looks like it makes good money. Uh, the hours are great. Um, you get to be good with people, science, art, um, you know, in business and all that stuff. And I was like, this, this just seems pretty cool. I don’t know if I can make it, but let’s give it a try. Yeah. So, um, up until that point, I really hadn’t tried much, um, in school. And once I started getting interested in dentistry, then I started deciding, you know, that I was going to start trying at school. And so that’s when I was, I kind of changed from more of a Bart Simpson to, uh, uh, a book nerd type. So, yeah.

Shawn Zajas 7:43

I don’t even know where to go with that one because I know, right? I know. I’m thinking about the whole Bart Simpson. So is that in the sense of like, uh, social comical, like, um, center of the class kind of attention wise? Oh yeah. Okay. Cause I see that you have that charisma. Yeah. That didn’t stop. It’s just, then it was more focused on, I always thought that there were smart kids and, uh, and I wasn’t one. So I’m, I’m just serious. And, uh, you know, so I thought, well, there’s smart kids.

Chad Johnson 8:13

And then there’s me and smart kids are smart and, you know, like tough luck for me. And when I started actually learning, and I think it was from basketball, like the discipline of bass of sports that I figured out. If I try hard, I can do as well as, uh, as the smart kids. And then I started, you know, at certain things outperforming what I deemed as the smart kids in class. And then it was, it really came down to when, you know, they started saying, Hey, um, what, you know, how did you do this project or how did you study for this test or whatever? I’d be like, why are you asking me? I’m the, you know, like you’re the smart kid, you know, but then I realized I was like, wow, like maybe I’m smart because I like, there’s naturally smart people. And then like, I’ve made up for it by trying hard. And, you know, like that there’s effort people that, and I don’t still consider myself necessarily a naturally smart smart person, but I think because I’ve put in effort, um, that it either mimics or it competes or fools people or myself into, you know, being intelligent or whatever. But then at some point, what’s the word mean? A rose is a rose. You know, like if I am, uh, wise slash witty slash intelligent slash, you know, uh, finding ways to get stuff done, like you, uh, an innovator, uh, then call it what you want. I feel like there’s people that are natural at it. And then there’s people that try hard at it. And then there’s people in the middle and I’m just a hard trier. I, I try hard to, uh, you know, to solve whatever is in front of me. I, I, I’m just a hard worker. So, so I, I wanted to interrupt you there so many times because the audience needs to know. I, I’ve been in the dental industry. I mean, loosely since I was 14, you know, I was going to dental shows with my

Shawn Zajas 10:10

dad and I’ve interacted with a lot of dental professionals, namely dentists. And, uh, when I met you, you had one of the sharpest intellects of any of the people I’ve met Chad. Oh, that’s nice. Um, so, so just for the audience to know, but then it’s fascinating what you shared because I love this idea of identity and I didn’t identify myself as a really smart person originally. Uh, you know, you had maybe some social or emotional IQ that was, or EQ that was really high and you weren’t as confident in the IQ. And then all of a sudden, like, I almost see you as a, an artist, um, this fusion of like a creative that’s very, um, gifted. And at the same exact time, I’m sure you have to work hard at certain things. Like, I don’t want to take that away from you, your, your diligence. Um, but I also feel like you have these, these gifts and talents that are very unique. Um, which I think he’s even led to, to why it is that you

Shawn Zajas 11:09

would even, so, so sorry. So to back up for innovation and dentistry, like this isn’t about technological innovation. Thank God. No, it’s not about clinical innovation. Cause it couldn’t come from me. I’m not a clinician. It is all about the mindsets and belief sets that we have. Correct. Empower us to want to pioneer and step out and make dentistry better. And you did that from like clinical dentist, which is more than enough to all of a sudden. I want to be part of a tribe and I want to start leading and podcasting. What, what, what happened there?

Chad Johnson 11:44

Um, it was 2012 that I had an, an associate leaving. And, um, my goal was, I think, financially driven at one point, it was that I wanted to, uh, make as much production money, uh, the following year without that associate as when she was on board. And mostly because I was like, we kind of need to, to pay bills. And so that’s when I started checking into Productive Dentist Academy. And that I think was what accelerated my leadership, uh, learning and leadership ability and training and honing in on that skill and craft. Um, and after a few years, I started getting better at being productive and seeing my weaknesses as a leader. And then, um, kind of digging in and that’s a lifelong journey, but, you know, digging into that and figuring out, okay, how can I get better? And over time, uh, they asked if I could come to the workshops and start telling people, cause in essence, Bruce has arrived, you know, like he’s, he’s made big progress. And then to have someone more like me that it’s like, okay, for example, in 2018, I, I think when I joined, uh, Productive Dentist Academy,

Chad Johnson 13:02

more as a faculty type, uh, position, and they didn’t even really have the term, but that I was coming to the workshops and, uh, letting people know that it’s like, you know, I’ve been within this journey for five years. You can within the next few years, you know, catch up to where you want to be as well as a leader, as a clinician and stuff like that. So, um, in one sense, when I think about innovation in dentistry, the podcast title or the subject matter altogether,

Chad Johnson 13:31

there was recently, and I’ll give you a link that you could share with the audience, but I saw this short on YouTube that was with Elon Musk and it’s entitled in case someone needs or wants to look it up later, Elon Musk laughs at the idea of getting a PhD and explains how it, uh, how to actually be useful, exclamation mark. Um, and how he worded that was someone said, so do you think getting a PhD is important? He said, no. And he said, uh, then he said, he talked about the utility of, uh, of getting a degree and the, and that would, I took more in innovation in the general term that, um, he said, if someone has a way that they can, uh, help a lot of people a little bit or help a few people, a lot of it, you know, it’s basically multiplying two axes, right? You know, that you can be powerful within one small industry, a ton, or you can help, you know, fluoridate water, for example, and help a lot of people in a small way that they don’t even care. But, you know, like you made a huge difference that both have a lot of use. And he said, you know, if you’re trying to get a PhD, the question would be, what kind of utility are you hoping to get out of it to help, you know, um, uh, greater society or, you know, a specific amount of people and that both are useful. And I thought that was cool. Cause I was trying to think when I thought about the title of this podcast,

Chad Johnson 14:56

am I really, you know, an innovator or do I help the people that I touch in small ways? And I think that’s, uh, that’s maybe my gift is, uh, through Productive Dentist Academy workshop and through just the patients and the interactions, for example, yours, uh, along the way that I just try and have meaningful, um, conversations, meaningful dialogues, uh, that, that impact that person enough that it helps, you know, shape who they are for their future self. And that was a long diatribe. Sorry, but it was just a, a thought.

Shawn Zajas 15:32

No, no, it’s really great. Although I don’t want you to downplay what you’ve been doing just on the podcast, you know, approaching, approaching the 200th episode is no small thing.

Chad Johnson 15:43

No, it’s you’re right.

Shawn Zajas 15:45

You know, and I think a lot of dentists would like to be like, Hey, you know, I would love to have a platform or be able to have more of a voice to influence, to lead, to pioneer. And I don’t even know where to get started. And yet somehow, um, because you’re trustworthy because you connected with a tribe of awesome people like PDA and right away they saw, wow, like Chad is like, he’s talented. He’s, he’s passionate. He loves dentistry. Like that all comes through.

Shawn Zajas 16:13

And I think one of the things I try to tell dentists is like your most sustainable advantage is always going to be finding out how to be yourself and infuse that into dentistry. And it’s a really challenging thing because, you know, as we’re growing, we start off by modeling and that’s how you grow. That’s how you learn language. That’s how you, you know, we end up having heroes and we’re like, man, someday if I could be like, like them, or if I could be like Dr. Bruce Baird, right. Who arrived. And he has like, he even started a company, sold it. Like he’s, he’s doing good, you know, you’re right. Um, but at some point we have to be like fulfillment only comes when I recognize that this is who I am. Not that, uh, I can get inspiration from that. I can get inspiration from that hero. I can take the best, but I still have to find a way for it to be me. And I feel like that’s what you own yourself. So well, I just saw YouTube short or a Facebook short that you did. Oh, it was, I don’t know what you were doing. It was hilarious.

Chad Johnson 17:13

Hilarious, but it had to do with the song lyric that, um, Oh, I don’t know if it was a salt or your punch. Oh, pour sugar on may. Oh yes. On may. Yeah. And so is the Def Leppard song, you know, pour some sugar on me, but I’ve always thought it was weird, funny, whatever that they would say, pour some sugar on may. And so I was just like, you know, I, I was leaving my workout that morning. I was like, Oh, it’s may 1st. And of course everyone always does the, you know, it’s gonna be my, you know, for, uh, Justin Timberlake. And that’s funny too. But for some reason it just came to my mind. I was like, you know what, there’s a coffee, there’s a coffee, um, bar at the workout place. And I bet they have a sugar packet and I’m going to work right now. I bet if I grabbed that sugar packet and then I printed off a little sheet of paper that said may. So that way it would show the context. And, and then I basically, I grabbed my, uh, my marketing guy. Cause I have an in-house marketing guy, another innovation that a lot of people don’t do, but I have an in-house marketing guy. And I, uh, I said, Hey, um, video me real quick. And he’s like, what are we doing? I said, just follow me. Let’s go. And so as you could tell, it was pretty impromptu. I said, you know, I’ve always wanted to do this, come out here. And I had already dropped the sheet of paper outside. And, and so I go and I say, I’m pouring some sugar on May. And, uh, it’s just dumb stuff like that.

Chad Johnson 18:34

But you know, some people, number one, wouldn’t want to put their neck out there because they’d risk looking dumb. And it goes back to this. Think about this, Shawn. I don’t care about looking dumb because sometimes I’m like, I’ve never felt smart. So what do I care if I look dumb? Because I, I just think it’s entertaining whether you actually think I’m dumb or not. I’m comfortable being me. So like, if I’m smart in some areas, I’m smart in some areas. If I’m not, it’s just like, I don’t, I don’t care. I don’t have any pretense to hold up to people. Like, and maybe that’s the authenticity part. Cause I get so many people want that pretense to be like, you know, I’m not, I’m not that, or, you know, like, I don’t want people to know that I’m only 99% smart, not a hundred percent genius. And for me, I’m just like, well, I’ve never thought I was in the first place. So I don’t care what you think. And I hope that maybe I inspire you, but in the end, it had nothing to do with like, whether, you know, oh, well, that guy doesn’t know, you know, calculus as well as a genius mathematician. I’d be like, never said I was, that’s not, that’s not the important part, but yeah, pour some sugar on May.

Shawn Zajas 19:36

So I’m watching this and I’m genuinely like, okay, I’m captivated. And I’m like, where is he going to go with this? Right. And then the finale came and I was just like, again, if I was your patient, I’d be like, that is absolutely Dr. Johnson. That, that is Chad. That is who he is. Yep. It’s not him seeing a TikTok reel and going, oh, let me mimic that. I’m going to copy it. Right. Right. It was, it was unique. It was you. And it just builds connection to anyone in the community that sees that. They’re like, that’s my dentist. I love this guy. So like, congratulations on that. Like, yeah, thanks. That was amazing. It like made my day. Like I was so happy seeing that. That’s awesome. I want people to just occupy the space that only they can occupy. Right. And I’m not trying to take over the world. I’m just trying to invite people into, you know, and as you see on, for example, my office is called Veranda Dentistry.

Chad Johnson 20:32

And, um, so if you go to our Facebook page or Instagram, whatever Veranda Dentistry, and, um, you can tell I like barbecue. Why? Because we put that out there. And what does that matter? I mean, am I such a narcissist that I need people to know that I like barbecue? No. Um, I like other stuff too, but it’s, it’s a way to connect with people that they go, huh? Especially in Iowa, we’re a pork state. Okay. And, you know, to have people go, all right, you know, like he’s just down to down to earth. He likes barbecue. Like, you know, my uncle does, or like I do, or, or, you know, my dad always liked barbecue or, or, you know, my sister, it’s, it’s just a way to get people to go, you know, meals are a way to connect with people. And just having silly pictures of me, you know, sometimes, you know, as we’re eating barbecue, or sometimes I’ll do a presentation of, uh, some kind of giveaway that we’re doing where I, you know, am recording at the bar because a meal is quintessentially human. Right. I mean, you know, like to sit down and commune with someone and have a meal. Absolutely. All cultures. Food is one of those cultural staples that. Yep. I had a, um, I had a Jewish rabbi professor at the university of Iowa who, um, his class was, oh, God, I can’t remember. Uh, it might’ve been like religions one or something like that, but his, his thesis, his topic was there’s three common things that connect everyone. And this, this,

Chad Johnson 22:00

but he said, every culture should be able to identify with this. It’s these three things, food, sex, and death and how we deal with those and how we, you know, and it was almost quirky, but you know what? It resonated well with me. Cause you, as you know, I’m the, but I, I, uh, I, I connected well with him on, uh, you know, talking about those things. Why? Because I’m human too. He’s human. And why would a, would a, you know, gringo, you know, white Protestant guy like me connect well with with this Jewish rabbi guy at the university. Um, because it’s, it’s universal language. And so again, back to, you know, the, the, the stuff that we’re doing on our social media, it’s, it’s to connect with people. And we try not to put any judgy stuff. Like you should floss more, you know, like people, people advertise that kind of, you should floss more. And it’s like, that might be true, but that’s not what they want to hear it. That doesn’t resonate. Like you’re a good friend when people come into, and they’ll say, you know, I haven’t flossed much. And I’ll be like, listen, you don’t need me to tell you, you need to floss more. That might be true, but it’s the last thing that you want to hear from me. When you want to floss, you’re going to floss more. If you don’t want to floss more, you don’t need me to tell you that you know it. So it’s, it’s the no judgment kind of stuff that we try and portray in our office.

Shawn Zajas 23:18

Okay. So you did say something a while back that I wanted to circle back to. You were talking about Chad, when you realized like, yeah, the things started lining up and dentistry could be cool. You know, it’s, it’s this opportunity. And then there’s the, you know, this part of it and there’s some money and there’s all these things. So if you can go back to that, you have this kind of idea of what dentistry was. Tell me in the first two, three years, when did something all of a sudden like show up and you’re like, wow, like I didn’t realize dentistry was so much more to that. And I don’t mean in a good way. I mean like, oh my God, like this is a crazy profession. I wasn’t expecting. I also have to be this. What would, what would that be?

Chad Johnson 24:01

Probably the HR, you know, with, with the team. That’s always tough. I, you know, I had an assistant that I got rid of after, I don’t know, something like three to six months of being open. And she was nice and all. It’s just, I, I, I felt horrible about, you know, having to let her go because it just wasn’t working. And here I’m 25 at the time, you know, I’m, I’m 25 years old owning a business. That’s a dental office, honestly, like it’s, it’s almost unheard of these days, but this was 2005. And, um, and I’ve, I’ve learned that, uh, patients are tough, but team is even tougher to, to deal with and manage and, um, you know, whatever word you want to use to it. Um, but, uh, yeah, the, the, the team expectations and the team dynamic is, uh, historically the tougher part. I’ll give some, uh, some hope to people though, that I have found that now that I’m coming up the summer on 18 years of being a business owner that I’m getting better at it. And I think I’m a solid B plus or a minus at this point, you know, that like I’m, I’m getting there. I’m not perfect. And, um, I try and be gracious when I’m not that, you know, like sometimes it is probably me. And sometimes, you know, like it’s that I’m, I’ve got shortfalls. Of my personality that either isn’t going to make this relationship work or whatever, but, uh, yeah, it’s the HR stuff, um, after dental school.

Shawn Zajas 25:38

So one of the things in my business journey, um, a mindset that I really had to, I actually don’t know why I’m saying my business journey. It still has like plagued me up until the last few months. And it was the immature mindset that I was linking everything I was doing to an outcome. Instead of to an output, because I couldn’t, I can’t control the outcome. I can’t control whether the marketplace says, yay, we love what you’re doing, but outputs I can control every single day. If this is what I need to do, I can do those and I can feel like it’s a success, but I keep linking things to outcomes and I get disillusioned. I get discouraged in this arc of 18 years of business ownership. Are there any mindsets that you just finally had to shed and let go of because they weren’t serving you?

Chad Johnson 26:28

I think the thing that I’ve embraced better, so I’ll say what I’ve gravitated towards, is what you’re saying is stoicism. It’s funny how ancient Greek philosophy can have a huge impact on your, so we can’t control, like we can’t worry about the things we can’t control, right? I mean, that’s a repackaged way of what you’re saying. And it’s like, that’s stoicism. And so I’m, I’m more and more gravitating towards being like, whatever I can control, then I’ll worry about if worry is even the right word. And then it actually stoicism kind of has some negative connotations that it’s like, well, no feelings and no, no happiness. Cause you don’t want to set yourself up for failure that you’re not going to be happy down the road. And, you know, just, just be glum. And, and that would be one perception of stoicism, but stoicism also has a, an optimism about it that it’s like, listen, you can’t control everything and be all right with that. And actually at the end of the day, rest well, knowing that you controlled what you can control and, uh, and that your, um, your response, is an important factor to it. And just because you perceive something one way, doesn’t mean that that is the truth of how the relationship is, you know, between someone or, or something. So stoicism is what I’d gravitate towards. Uh, let me stop because I’ve been giving long answers and then you have to back up. What’s your thoughts on that, that stoicism?

Shawn Zajas 28:04

Um, I don’t think I’ve ever like actually like linked, like, I don’t know much about, um, the concept behind stoicism. I probably heard the term, whether it’s in a movie or in some books, but I’ve never actually researched it.

Chad Johnson 28:19

So check it out. I’ll, I’ll help you in a tangible way because we’re audible buddies. Um, the Ryan Holiday is the author and the book is called the obstacle is the way. And it’s a fantastic synopsis of stoicism. Um, but it doesn’t get all preachy in the philosophy of stoicism. It’s very practical stoicism, but it comes down to, you know, like control what you can control, then quit trying to control what you can’t control, you know, like, and it sounds so obvious, but we’re hardwired. Like, because think about it. If you’re, you grow up and you’re like, okay, even, even it says, I was just quoting this the other day. I think it’s in first Corinthians where it’s like run the race in such a way that you can win the prize.

Shawn Zajas 29:04

That’s right. It’s a very literal, like there is an objective prize. You know, if you’re, your kid’s playing a game, it’s like, there’s an actual winner and a team that just fell short. You know, we watch the Olympics. We watch people strive all the time and there is a marketplace and there is an actual outcome sometimes of being on top of arriving somewhere. So it’s like sometimes in our goals or in our objectives or the things we’re shooting for, it’s actually, there’s a locality to it. And yet that’s where disconnect, like, I don’t know how, like striving for that, but still somehow not. I think I get in trouble when I link my value or my worth or my momentum to how I’m interfacing with that.

Chad Johnson 29:54

Yeah, that makes sense. It does. Um, and these are deep thoughts that everyone just has to wrestle with. And like the book title is the obstacle is the way the way you get there is to wrestle with that obstacle. And the, the journey is important. So backing up though, you asked, you know, like, what have you shed? And I almost like, unfortunately, for the podcaster’s sake, you and I will message each other back and forth. And forth later when I’ve had some time to think about it. Um, because you can always come back, Chad, right? That’s such a deep question. Well, I appreciate it. I mean, maybe that’s what I’m setting myself up for is just, you know, why don’t you, um, but that’s one that I’m going to have to think about. What, what did I, what mentality did I shed? Um, oh, okay. I’ve, I mean, I’ve got a really tangible one and it goes back to coaching and PDA Productive Dentist Academy. I mean, this isn’t, my goal isn’t to plug

Chad Johnson 30:54

them as though I have some financial stake in, you know, or ownership in the company. I’m just such a fan and my mindset back in 2012 and prior. So, you know, from 05, when I graduated to 2012, the first seven years of my practice was if, if you hire a consultant, they have no skin in the game. They tell you what to do. You pay them a lot of money. Then you’re on the hook still for coming up with, you know, the, the results and they, and that’s one way of looking at it for sure. It’s a very negative way of looking at it, but I thought that was just like the realistic way. I don’t have, let’s say at the time, I don’t have 30,000 bucks to give to someone to tell me what to do with my business, uh, things I don’t want to do. And on the other hand, if you find a consultant that you are comfortable with, then come to find out, uh,

Chad Johnson 31:54

in my journey, I w they never pressured me to do what I didn’t want to do. They just say, what do you want to work on now? And it was a choose your own adventure. And, um, and I kept on seeing results after results. And here I am, you know, 11 years later, and I’m still using coaching and I never would have saw that coming. Um, because now I’m, uh, I I’m, I’m still seeing progress in my myself. And I just, I, I, I, that totally blew me away. It was, I was a very cynical about consulting, but if you find someone that you trust, uh, then they’re worth it. That, that would be my take on.

Shawn Zajas 32:36

Okay. So that, that is absolutely brilliant because the greatest achievers in any endeavor have someone that is helping them. I mean, Tom Brady, the Tom Brady still had a coach, a quarterback coach that would help him on mechanics to just still make his throwing form better. We’re talking 18 years in 20 years in Tiger Woods, all these greats are still submitting themselves to get, even if it’s like 0.5% better, we’re not even talking 1%, like any edge they can get. And I, I really understand what you’re saying about the, I don’t know, for me, I think I also have been at times either cynical or a little jaded about who to trust. Cause if you get burned, you almost want to isolate and become island and be like, look, I’m just going to look within myself. You learn at a distance and figure it out. And it is very difficult to, uh, actualize, to, you know, become the greatest version of yourself on an island.

Chad Johnson 33:37

You because I’ll be bold and I’m not, I’m not calling anyone out, but that’s cowardly. And we all have the potential to be cowardly. So what I’m saying is within our human nature, we have the potential to be cowardly, each of us. And that we also have the potential to be brave and to be brave. You have to put yourself out there. Wouldn’t it be nice just to have no opinion and no stake in any game ever, ever, but you’re not going to, you know, um, it goes back to the Rod Stewart song tis better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all. Uh, uh, you know, that you’ve got to stick your neck out. And it reminds me of another book by Geoff Colvin. Um, that is called talent is overrated.

Chad Johnson 34:24

Talent is overrated is, um, a book about, um, when you’re purposeful about like when you do intentional practice that you can get better. Um, and he talks about tiger woods and stuff like that. And, you know, and hiring a coach to restructure his form. Why? Because, you know, getting the Pareto principle to the 80th percentile is maybe, maybe somewhat of a challenge, but that last 20% or to get to the top 1% and then the top 0.1% and then the top, the top in the nation, the top in the world. Yeah. That takes a lot of effort to get to that. I mean, you see that in physics and chemistry, you know, the electrons that are, uh, near the outside, you know, are taking so much more energy. So there’s, there’s so much that goes into that. It’s not just some kind of like, uh, mental philosophy. It’s like, no, you see that nature in physics and chemistry and biology and stuff like that, that, uh, getting to the top. It Pareto principle is based off of nature. You know, he saw it in nature and stuff that, uh, you give everyone a hundred bucks and sure enough, a year later, some people have done some stuff with a hundred bucks. Other people have squandered it. And if you gave them all a hundred bucks again, it might be the same people that end up, you know, outperforming. And, and because we don’t have equity of, of outcome, we can have, uh, equality of input, but the output, it goes back to output. My goodness, this is fun. Shawn.

Shawn Zajas 35:54

You’re awesome. Okay. But this is also part of the dynamic that we have. And that’s why I was like, I need Chad to come on because, well, you’re awesome too. That’s why I love, I, and you know, I love the concept of, of coming on, onto this. This is, uh, this is good times. I, and, uh, yeah, if I were to be so bold, I, you know, that we could have more discussions like this. Cause, uh, well, we just, I mean, we, we, we always have.

Shawn Zajas 36:23

Okay. So there’s, there’s two different things I want to hit on. Um, and one of them is about the fact that dentistry in general, you know, has had some pretty dark, dark times where, you know, some of the best in dentistry, um, get taken out by the profession. Cause some of the lows can be very, very low with massive debt, uh, feeling isolated. This whole idea of, I have to keep appearances and show everyone that I’m a successful dentist. That’s led to suicide rates being commonly high. Um, and combine that with what is, what’s been the dark night of the soul for you in dentistry? And how did you come out of that? Because some of our listeners may be in the midst of it, or some might be sliding into that. And it’s like, here you are, you’ve made it 18 years in or whatever you said, you’re, you’re at a place where there’s so much clicking, uh,

Chad Johnson 37:21

you’re podcasting, you’re leading, you’re doing it, but it probably wasn’t always that way. So just to peer into the humanity of Chad and that struggle for me, it was COVID. And, um, when they first closed down the, you know, dentistry and the state board, you know, said you can’t open indefinitely except for emergencies. And I had just bought two new practices. So I had just paid off one, my first practice and I was, um, I was buying two more cause I was basically expanding my brand and wanting to kind of go that route and a couple million in debt again. And all of a sudden my offices are closed. Well, how do you pay for your mortgage on a couple million bucks when you’re closed? Right. So, uh, that was, I just, I’ve always loved going to work until then. Um, like every day, every day, like I’d be, you know, people would be like, you know, those tough days. And I’d be like, no. Or they’d say, you know, but like those tough weeks. And I’d be like, no. Um, so it just didn’t resonate well with me. Cause funny enough, one of my other little hacks is I don’t really listen to my feelings about, you know, like, uh, I can block out stuff pretty well, which can be a benefit and a detraction. You know, like it’s, it’s good to be in tune with yourself and I can do that if I’m purposeful about it, but otherwise like I’m good at just, you know, not.

Chad Johnson 38:51

And like, for example, I do triathlons and stuff and zoning out of, you know, like, is my hip hurting? It’s like, don’t ask, just run. Right. You know, or like, I feel like my ankle is like, well, ask yourself again in a half a mile. Cause sure enough, after a mile of kind of getting stretched out, you feel fine. Yep. And so like quit asking and like mental blinders, right? Mental blinders. And it’s so beneficial when you want to be a trooper, but then there’s times when it’s like, dude, you’re bleeding. And I remember laying in bed during COVID. Maybe it was the first few days, week that we are closed and thinking so much of my identity was being around being a dentist and thinking I’m, I’m technically unemployed and laying there. And my heart was pounding faster and thinking, um, like, what, what am I feeling? It was so, um, foreign to me. I’m like, what, what is going on?

Chad Johnson 39:49

And I realized self-diagnosing laying in bed. I’m like, I’m having a panic attack. I’ve never had a panic attack. Huh? This, huh? Uh, I’m, I’m nervous. Now I want to have a trust in God where I come from, you know, like my soul. I, I want to place my trust in God. This is a foreign feeling to me. Why am I feeling this? Why don’t I just give it to God and, and let go? Why? And sitting there trying to like work through, like, what is, why am I not trusting him to, you know, to see me through this? I mean, like, have we gone this far for him to just drop the ball on me? Or, you know, do I not have the resolve also on my own end to, to take care of my family and the business and, you know, whatever, like, won’t we see through six months from now, hopefully won’t we be out of this? But I still was like,

Chad Johnson 40:48

my heart rate when I get ready for bed, it starts to go under 50. And I’ll wake up my, my, my little Oura ring will tell me that sometimes I’m in the 30s. And right. And so like, I knew something was wrong when my heart rate was, you know, like 70 or 80 when I’m laying down for bed. And I’m just like, why is it this way? So that was the worst time. How did I like, how did I resolve out of that? I, I, I mean, man, at that point, we were growing the brand right at the time when everything shut down. So I was at 23, 24 employees. And, um, and I decided to zig when others would zag. And I just went total fee for service. I sent a letter to all the patients saying, we’re not going to participate in your network. I don’t think that I can feasibly charge what we need to charge to have this place be safe when, you know, and give the quality that we need to when, when insurance dictates to me what we need to, you know, like what we can collect.

Chad Johnson 41:48

And so with variable expenses going up, the volume game doesn’t work. I was like, screw this. I’m done. And so I took charge in that direct manner was getting rid of the insurances. And then, um, over time, I started crafting the office to become more of what I need, needed it and wanted it to be. And that started relaxing me more. We were closed nine. 10 weeks. And when we opened up, it still was tough because patients weren’t coming in. And about a year later, I, man, that was rough. Cause I was like, it was the first time a foreign thought that I was like, I really don’t like work. I think, I think I’d rather just go ride my bike or honestly, I’d rather get my CDL and drive a truck right now. Cause just putting up with patients, putting up with teammates that are worried or, you know, like I, I have to worry about my own nervousness. I don’t want to worry about their

Chad Johnson 42:48

nervousness too. So I recognize that I wasn’t the best leader during that time. And that was tough, but I was quick to admit it to myself. Cause I’m like, I know what good leadership looks like. And I’m cocky enough to think that normally I provide pretty good leadership and it’s not happening right now. We’d have, we’d have zoom calls. I just, I I’d be like, I don’t care. I don’t want to sit around and talk about this. I don’t want to mull over this more. It’s just really getting, you know, like, but they’d be like, it’s healthy. Let’s talk it through. And I’m like, maybe, but I’m I’m, I’m mentally sick right now and I don’t want to participate. I just, I’d rather just go to bed. I’m like, and so depression. I don’t know. It was weird. And I’m glad that I got out of it, but I’ve been there before and it was rough.

Shawn Zajas 43:33

Okay. So in this moment, who gave you a guarantee that your strategy was going to work?

Chad Johnson 43:39

Oh, no one.

Shawn Zajas 43:40

Okay. So you had no guarantee. What if it failed?

Chad Johnson 43:44

Yeah, it’s, I mean, I answer that rhetorically as much as the the question was a rhetorical. It’s like, yeah, it could have. And you know what? I was just like, we’re burning the ships. Um, and we’re, we’re going to plant ourselves in this new space of fee for service. And if, if fee for service doesn’t work for me, then screw it. I’ll, you know, like, but I’m going to take this either to new levels or we’re going to sink, uh, by this leadership. I did.

Chad Johnson 44:17

So was that terrifying? No, it felt, I felt more in control because I was making the course, uh, and just shoot, you know, because sometimes it’s not the right against the wrong it’s choosing and sticking to a decision, massive action versus inaction. Yes. And so I just, I, I was like,

Chad Johnson 44:40

you know, cause they’d be like the team, all right, maybe we should. And I’d be like, Nope, ain’t going to happen. This place will close. You know, you will find jobs elsewhere and I will go work as a realtor before I go back. And they’ve heard me say that I’m like, I’ll go into realty. I will. I swear I’ll get a, I’ll get a truck license and I’ll just drive a truck or something, but I’m not, I’m not going to go back to doing, um, high volume, uh, fast dentistry. I’m just,

Shawn Zajas 45:08

I want to provide quality. Chad being on that, that cusp of the unknown, that precipice of just like looking into the future and being like, I have no idea. This could totally just tank the practice. Uh, everyone’s knocking on my door, looking to me as a team. I need to lead. I I’m uncomfortable with, with the unknown, with the lack of certainty. And the fact that you somehow got composure, boldness, stepped out, led, and it did work. Like, I just want to honor you for that.

Shawn Zajas 45:41

Like, like even in, as me as an entrepreneur, I don’t feel like I was naturally an entrepreneur. A lot of people are like, Oh yeah, I was like that the whole way. I don’t think that was me. Um, and some of the most uncomfortable parts of being entrepreneurial to me has been the lack of certainty. It’s been the, what if I fail and trying to figure out if I’m going to fail, I would need to

Shawn Zajas 46:03

fail forward. Yeah. You know, and it’s actually true learning that takes place when we interact with the market and not just theorize. And I don’t know about you. I kind of have a feeling. I love theorizing. Like I could just learn and be an educator and never have to interact with reality. Just stay in my, my realm of thoughts and concepts and exploring that. And now maybe I wouldn’t be

Chad Johnson 46:29

fully satisfied, but intellectually, I love that space. Yeah. I had a lot of time for thinking. I like when we were closed, I’d go on five hour bike rides. I just would go out and ride out in the country. And I’m just like, this is healthy for me to burn off some of this energy. And I’m just going to go out for a five hour bike ride and a bike brand. What is it specialized? Cervélo. Oh, isn’t it Italian? It is. Yep. But it’s, it’s kind of big in the tri-sphere. Yeah. Is it a tri-bike? Tri-bike.

Chad Johnson 47:01

Yep. TT bars. Yeah. Yep. Yep. So I would pop in my earbuds and I would listen to audible just one after another, after another, and just hour after hour. I just even remember on a bike ride. I mean, a five hour bike. I think I got all the way through Psalms one through one 50 all in one ride. You know, you could do that. I could, I could, uh, one time I’m trying to think like when I was on 1.8 speed,

Chad Johnson 47:28

if I even, I, I would just crush through stuff, you know, and, um, and the, the goal wasn’t to get done. I was thinking about stuff hour, minute after minute, hour after hour. And so I was exercising, which is healthy for your brain and your body. And I was thinking, which is healthy for an entrepreneur, for your brain and body. And, um, and it, it, that really helped focus me. I think it’s just like a rat on a, a wheel. They’re not necessarily going anywhere, but, uh, you know, like at least they’re

Chad Johnson 48:01

doing something and I’m not saying doing something is better than doing nothing because sometimes doing nothing. But for me, the focus was good. The focus was good being on that bike ride and, and, and, uh, and you’ve been there before. I mean, you, you know, that exercise and, uh, that discipline,

Chad Johnson 48:17

discipline, maybe that’s what it was, was, was even though I was in a prison camp, I was going to get up and salute and walk in formation and do little things that kept me in the mindset that I’m still a soldier and I’m still, I still own a business. We might not be making money, but doggone it. I’m the captain of this ship. I’m the owner of this business. We’re going to see it through.

Shawn Zajas 48:39

And you’re still literally in motion. Yeah. Yes. Literally. Like there’s something about, I remember I, uh, went and visited, you know, where I’m from in New Hampshire on a vacation and I didn’t have a vehicle. Um, and the family I was staying with, they let me borrow just like a bike that they had, you know, it’s a small town, but stuff’s still pretty disconnected. Like the speed limit’s 30 miles an hour. Right. Um, and I just started biking and, and again, this isn’t like a road bike.

Shawn Zajas 49:09

This is a mountain bike. I’m not going fast. I don’t want to get super sweaty, but I wanted to go to friends houses or different places where I could see people and having that time in that, I don’t know, almost like that pace that was broken down, like to just think and be with my thoughts and almost kind of made me think like even back in like biblical days of Paul walking from Samaria to

Chad Johnson 49:33

Judea and having all that time to think. Yes. Hey, which part of New Hampshire were you from?

Shawn Zajas 49:39

Southern New Hampshire. It’s just North of Nashua, South of Manchester, Merrimack.

Chad Johnson 49:45

Okay. Londonderry, Merrimack. I’m looking on Google maps in case someone wondered how I knew that. I didn’t. I was just looking it up. So yeah, near the Stonyfield Farms factory. Yes. There’s a

Shawn Zajas 49:58

Budweiser, Anheuser-Busch that actually even has the Clydesdales in Merrimack, New Hampshire. In Merrimack. It’s our claim to fame. You know, you can smell the hops when you’re driving. It’s beautiful up

Shawn Zajas 50:08

there. It’s beautiful. Yeah. Okay. So this is where I want to go and close. I have a question that I’ve been asking and it’s just a fun question. But before I ask the question, is there any, um, is there anything you want to bring attention to either? Like, Hey, follow me on Facebook or check out what I’m doing in my practice, or there’s a workshop for PDA. Like, what do you, what would you want our

Chad Johnson 50:31

listeners, their eyeballs to go right now in this moment? Yep. Because I’m just a dentist. Like I’m like, I’m not, well, what I’m saying is I’m not promoting my own stuff. So I haven’t, you know, you can check out Veranda Dentistry, but it’s more or less for your own interest. If you wanted to push yourself, I would say there’s one, um, finite thing that you could do is twice a year currently. And

Chad Johnson 50:54

historically it was three times a year, but twice a year, we have our PDA workshops. It’s normally March and September. It’s normally in the Dallas Fort Worth area around where Dr. Bruce Baird lives. If you want to check them out, like I did go to YouTube and also Vimeo and check out Bruce Baird, uh, you know, some of his stuff. I was hooked on, um, his enigma, you know, like there was something about him that was just, um, uh, really fantastic. And I knew I could trust him without even having met him. Uh, and so a very, uh, relatable. So the workshops for PDA, uh, twice a year, check those

Chad Johnson 51:32

out. Um, bring your team would be my recommendation. My, someone recommended that I do that and I took them up on that and that made a big difference. The bigger, broader thing I was going to say was, listen, get audible and be listening to books. I’m not talking about self-help books for the sake of helping yourself per se, though, you know, books do help you in that they, they, the author of that thought brings to mind, uh, a meditation that you’re having on a certain idea

Chad Johnson 52:02

and helps you ruminate it and cultivate it and become more, um, formed in how you think about those things. And I, I just can’t believe, uh, how much time I have 10 minutes here and five minutes here and 20 minutes there that I’m listening to audible. And it really helps me, uh, uh, connect with the best thought, uh, provoking, um, authors, you know, on topics all over the board, but that makes me a better leader and a better businessman, a better father, uh, better husband, all that

Shawn Zajas 52:34

stuff. Okay. So before I close, a curve ball name, a challenging business book that you’d recommend to

Chad Johnson 52:41

our readers, um, way of the wolf, uh, by Jordan Peterson, uh, not Jordan, Jordan Belfort. Um, and it’s the same one as the movie, the wolf of wall street, but it’s the business book aspect of selling. And that guy’s genius at selling. Uh, it’s fantastic. It has nothing to do with dentistry and everything to do with dentistry. Um, you would love the book too. So way of the wolf by Jordan

Shawn Zajas 53:07

Belfort. Okay. And why did you answer so quickly? Uh, because that is, that has, um, that’s been my

Chad Johnson 53:15

favorite book. Not that I keep on rereading it, but I was so impressed with that book. And, um, it just is, it’s my answer for like, if someone says, Hey, give me a book. And if they’re a dentist or a

Shawn Zajas 53:28

entrepreneur way of the wolf for sure. Okay. So here we go. Here we go, Chad. I think you’re, I think you’re going to be ready for this. Let’s go back 18 years. Um, you want to say, how old are you?

Chad Johnson 53:40

Uh, I’m 43 now. I was 25 right then when I graduated. Okay. So you graduated 25. Chad of today

Shawn Zajas 53:48

is walking by 25 year old Chad and you have one sentiment you can communicate to him.

Chad Johnson 53:55

What is that sentiment? I took a deep breath for this. Um, Hmm. The moment has already passed. Uh, cause it’s like, you’re like, wait, Chad, I know you’re

Shawn Zajas 54:15

like, you can pick them up, put them over your shoulder and walk a bit while you’re thinking it’s okay.

Chad Johnson 54:19

Um, Oh, this almost sounds so corny, but it’s like, you have the skillset and the drive to do what you’re going to accomplish over the next 20 years. Do it, be true to that and just do it. I think that’d be it that I, my goal would be to give him resolve that in fact, there’s not a nugget, you know, out there that it’s going to be like, what, you know, but like just man, 25 year old Chad is just as genuine

Shawn Zajas 54:57

as 43 year old Chad. Just do it, implement it. I absolutely love that. Dr. Chad Johnson. Thank you so much because you are as well, Shawn, you are an innovator. I love the difference that you’re making in dentistry. And I love the fact that you have the courage to just own who you are in the space and you do it brilliantly. Um, I’m behind you in all of your future endeavors. I just want you to

Chad Johnson 55:25

know that. Well, thank you very much. And I appreciate listeners. If you want to get ahold of me personally, Chad DDS at gmail.com. If you’re in a mess and you want someone objective to, uh, give his two cents worth, uh, I’m, I’m glad to give my thoughts, uh, they’re, they’re worth what you paid for them, but I’m, I’m willing to hear you out and I love mentoring people. So bring it on and Shawn,

Shawn Zajas 55:48

let’s do this again. Sounds great. Thanks so much, Chad. Thanks buddy.

Shawn Zajas 55:53

Thanks for listening and be sure to follow. So you never miss an episode to learn more about what’s going on in dentistry. Check out innovationindentistry.com.